Conversions of the Belgian Colt – Next Level of the Evolution?

“You can never have enough 1860 Armies” voiced a wise US pard and he is right. Like him I enjoy the graceful lines of this great cap & baller and add…”particularly as a quality conversion shooting smokeless inside lubed .44 Colt cartridges”.

Centaure Richards Conversion: Now it is about time to introduce you to the gunsmith who made this Centaure Richards conversion reality. Pards & pardettes, please, meet Karl Nedbal of Vösendorf, Austria

May 23, 2008: Karl Nedbal in his shop explaining the conversion of S/N 4079 – a few seconds before I hold her for the first time. There are a couple of ways to proceed when you decide to have your prized C&B revolver converted to shoot

cartridges. Eventually you may want a gunsmith to execute that delicate task for you but here is the dilemma…how do you find your ideal converter-gunsmith? After trials and errors my “5 + 2 converter-checklist”: He

#1 knows his gunsmith profession inside out including his limitations, and he is proud of his work,

#2 has a proven record of repairing and tuning cowboy guns in general but particularly Colt SA systems,

#3 has done similar conversions before.

#4 he can draw the model gun from his gun collection or has access to one, and works from there

#5 listens carefully to my wishes and ideas, and finds suitable solutions to satisfy them. But he is not telling me what I want…unless I ask him to do so.

Finally I like a

#6 firm quote for my project because from the start I want to know how much it will set me back but equally important when my conversion will be completed. I would be irritated and hesitant when a date beyond 12 months is suggested…and I expect the smith to meet his commitments…usually. And

#7 I expect my gunsmith to inform me regularly about the progress of the work…with some sense of humor, please.

This is what sets Karl Nedbal apart from many of the rest. Here are further views of the Centaure Richards Conversion.

Left side
44 CAL is embossed in trigger-guard, screws are domed	Rear sight and loading gate
Close-up of right side with the hammer cocked and loading gate open
In front of Nebal’s shop in Vösendorf. The master with his missus (right) and my better half (left) holding one of Nedbal’s gated Remington New Model Army conversions, plus Willie the dog

Centaure Thuer Conversion: why would one want to have a perfectly functional Centaure 1960 NMA converted to shoot cartridges? What does this conversion have that a quality Single Action Army clone does not offer at a quarter to a third of the price out of the box? But then do we conversion-aficionados want to start another argument about history, passion and desire? We all have heard about this vicious bug called Bacillus Conversicus (BC). Many good pards & pardettes got bitten. You can count on regular acute attacks after the first exposure to BC. I got infected early 2002 when I acquired my first Uberti Colt RM Army conversion in .44 Colt and have not recovered since. Actually I like these attacks. The only treatment known is targeting and tracking down another conversion pistol. That is a temporary treatment only, no permanent cure is known!

For a couple of years I have been drooling over the Thuers and wanted a quality repro of a Colt Army Thuer conversion …just because plus

1. this innovative approach on the drawing board from the late 1860s to avoid paying licensing fees is just plain stupid elegant

2. I want a modern made and “new” looking pistol that I can shoot. This rules out the real thing (which I cannot afford, anyhow)

3. When Uberti sold a few prototypes a couple of years back I made up my mind too late and missed the opportunity

4. Despite her reputation of functional flaws on the range I enjoy the quality craftsmanship for this never popular pistol.

Another chance to own a Thuer replica seemed to unfold during late 2007 when HEGE in Messkirch/Germany (www.waffen-hege.de) announced a mini series of Thuer Armies made from Uberti parts. They even presented a cased prototype. But it appears that the project has been stalled or is many moons away from realization.

	During my research for the Richards project I became aware that Nedbal had made Thuer Armies from old Ubertis. Actually he is doing them
	regularly on special order - including loading tool and all. On the left are pictures of a Nedbal Thuer made from a 1970s Uberti 1860 Army. The

Top picture is the pistol with Thuer ring and cylinder installed, the bottom one shows the same gun with C&B cylinder, Thuer ring and cylinder, loading tool and 2 cartridges. Therefore, when this

pre-owned regular NMA S/N 7266 came my way from a pard who had used her for 40 years (!) in bulls eye competition I jumped on the opportunity and grabbed her as the base gun for this

Centaure Thuer conversion.

In March 2008 I asked Nedbal if he would do a Centaure Thuer for me using this pistol and he agreed. So when I collected the Richards I left him this baby for this project. Incidentally, he happened to have an Uberti Thuer in his shop ready for final fitting. But the specs of its conversion ring were just a mite off to work with my Centaure.

Project Outline – Centaure Thuer Conversion

Base pistol: regular NMA 1^st variation, 3^rd sub-variation, S/N 7266

Barrel marking: “1960 NEW MODEL ARMY” CENTENNIAL TRADE MARK

Caliber: .44 Thuer with separate .44 cal. C&B cylinder

Rifling groove diameter: .447

Wedge: Centaure

Conversion ring: spring laoded type

Conversion cylinder: left-over C&B cylinder S/N 969 from Richards project, Centaure proprietary naval scene

C&B cylinder: Centaure (rebated plain)

Hammer: modified from Centaure

Backstrap: Centaure (steel, without cut for stock)

Trigger-guard: Centaure (brass)

Accessories: loading tool, cases made from .44 Magnum brass

Finish: rust blue and traditional Colt-style case colors

It will be a couple of months before she is completed. As with the Richards project Karl Nedbal promised to picture-document the progress of the project. Here we go:

Cutting of the Thuer conversion ring for S/N 7266

Thuer cylinder lathed to fit	Thuer ring and cylinder installed
Accessories for the Centaure Thuer Conversion

This Thuer conversion project developed its own positive dynamics: exactly 3 months after I collected the Centaure, Richards Karl Nedbal presented the Thuer to me. August 22, 2008 was the day of truth and I took possession of my new toy.

Master Nedbal and 3 Thuers: which one is the Centaure or the Uberti or the Colt?

Although the S/N 7266 saw many years of blackpowder shooting action I asked Nedbal not to do a full restoration of the pistol, particularly not to “push” the wedge. But I could not stop him from nicely doming and fire-bluing all screws like you would expect on a NIB 1^st generation Colt.

Views of Centaure Thuer S/N 7266 with loading tool and empty cases

Pair of Centaure conversions: Thuer (top) Richards (bottom)

For easy loading and ejection of the empties the master re-contoured both sides of the barrel and opened the loading slot like on an original. Of course, he also drilled and threaded the percussion rammer-plunger to receive the Thuer priming punch.

Barrels: C&B (left) and Thuer (right)		Thuer ring fixed, resting on cylinder

Cylinders: C&B (left) and Thuer (right) of S/N 7266

Thuer ring and cylinder separated

Breech view of conversion ring

Three big questions remain: will the reloading combination tool work for me as Karl Nedbal demonstrated it in his shop? Will I hit what I am aiming at with my Thuer reloads? And finally will the ejection mode of the conversion ring do its job?

Here are a couple of pictures of my first experience loading Thuer shells using the cartridge loading fixtures as the loading tool was called back then. I use large pistol primers for the cases machined by Nedbal.

The cases were filled “to the rim” with the holy black, although the Vienna Proof house approved her for smokeless! Once I found my routine of turning the tool forward and backward around the arbor loading these cartridges is a simple, straight forward operation. I have an idea now how the oldtimers felt sitting around the campfires reloading Thuer empties yesteryear…

	On the indoor range in Hofheim with the Centaure Thuer, August 27, 2008. Loading the 6 cartridges is easy. Only very little force is needed to push them into the front of the chambers… 1^st round fired downrange from 25 meters…provides a
	solid first impression: nice boom, pretty thick smoke, but significant recoil of the 280 grainers… Next 5 rounds fired in quick succession produced satisfactory POA/POI at 8 meters… and positive ejection of the shells after all chambers
	were emptied. It is a joy to shoot this Nedbal Thuer. She functions reliable if I do my part…but you have to pay attention to the details and don’t get over-excited… count your empties if you
	do not wish to end up with a “Thuer Magnum” like I did. She got her personality, is not what I would call a “forgiving” pistol. I am very happy to have her and look forward to putting her through the paces of
Thuer Magnum: fresh round loaded on top of an empty		At 15 meters she is printing a bit high and to the left

serious target shooting. Potential for great accuracy is there but I have to establish the right load with proper lube first.

Centaure Long Cylinder Conversion (LC conversion): Bob Millington’s (www.armsportllc.com) 2^nd generation Colt Army Long Cylinder conversions in Dennis Adler’s book COLT SINGLE ACTION FROM PATERSONS TO PEACEMAKERS rightly got a lot of attention. This very basic and economical conversion concept for 1860 Armies and 1861 Navies alike for the poor cowpokes back then looked like another interesting proposition for a conversion project. The theory that the originals were probably made outside the Hartford Colt factory and could be had with barrels shorter than 8” added to their desirability. It triggered the idea to have a Centaure Marshal

converted. Marshals S/N 12089 (left) and S/N 12067 (right). Right pistol is the candidate for the conversion. She was selected because she needs “waynerizing” anyhow. Therefore,

the conversion will accomplish two objectives. If the LC conversion will be as functional as I expect, S/N 12089 might go the conversion trail as well because it will be cool to use that pair in CAS matches instead of my Uberti Open Tops. This time German gunsmith Klaus Mumme of Königsbronn was trusted with the conversion. Klaus is CAS competitor and has many years of solid gunsmith experience with cowboy guns. He understands what it takes to make a reliably functioning cartridge firing pistol. I first met him 2004 when he altered an Uberti Henry 1860 and an ASP Winchester 1873 from .44-40 to .44 Colt for me. These jobs were so nicely executed that my pard Bumble Bee asked him do the same on his ASP Winchester.

	More important, however, are his credentials as “converter” from a more recent project: he converted my old 1971 production Uberti Remington New Model Army into a .44 Colt
	“factory conversion” without loading gate, see for yourself. The conversion cylinder for the Remington was lathed by the above Bob Millington of Colorado but Klaus fashioned a new octagon barrel with .429 bore, dovetailed the thin recoil

plate and the front sight into place, constructed and fitted the PC ejector assembly, and modified the hammer for this project. The finish is blue with case colored hammer. Despite her age this Mumme Remmie is one sweet tack driver!

Project Outline – Centaure Long Cylinder Conversion

Base pistol: Marshal 1^st variation, S/N 12067

Barrel: 5,5”

Barrel marking: none

Caliber: .44 Colt inside lubed (liner, 429 rifling groove diameter)

Ejector housing: none

Wedge: Centaure

Conversion cylinder: newly lathed, plain

Hammer: nose re-machined

Hammer stop: pinned in front of recoil shield with guiding slot for new hammer nose

Rear sight: dovetailed and mounted on the barrel

Frame: milling off the step

Recoil shield: cartridge loading channel cut into right recoil shield

Backstrap: Centaure (steel, with cut for stock)

Trigger-guard: Centaure (brass)

Finish: probably nickel but open for suggestions

Klaus Mumme and yours truly discussing at ease the LC project June 1, 2008. Please, bear with us to see the progress.

Ideas for other Centaure Conversions and the 1871-72 Open Top: you probably got the picture by now. I love these modern made quality Colt cartridge conversions, enjoy their fine workmanship and like to shoot them because an 1860 points better than any other cartridge firing pistol. As for caliber I prefer one as PC as possible, hence my affinity to the inside lubed .44 Colt. Technically and in the measurement department I like my conversions be as close to the original as possible.

To the best of my knowledge the only current factory manufactured conversions are coming from Uberti in Gardone/Italy. Please, get me right: these are quality pistols and fine shooters. I own a couple and use my pair of Open Tops in CAS activities. My point here is not to start a range war about the comparative merits of Italian vs. Belgian steel…but take a close look at their Colt Army Richards Transitional Model (R2) or their Colt Army Richards+Mason Conversion. At one glance you see the beefy frames, cylinders and barrels of the Ubertis compared to the Centaure Richards or the 2^nd generation Colt Army.

Top down left 2^nd gen. Colt S/N US0858, Centaure Richards S/N 4079; top down right Uberti RM Army S/N X02711, Uberti Richards 2 S/N X04444

Uberti are probably well advised to strengthen these critical areas to keep lawyers happy, and offering a simple base for the production of these revolvers in other popular, possibly more powerful but not PC cowboy calibers. However, given the option such a clone will be my second choice only.

Since the Centaure Richards conversion (R1) is reality a Richards Transitional Model (R2) can be a straight, simple and logical next evolutionary step: instead of the complicated Richards conversion ring with integral firing pin and rear sight just the much simpler RM conversion ring is needed and the original C&B hammer slightly modified, the rest is R1 technology. I might consider such a project once the Thuer and the LC conversions are completed. But of course I need to persuade my better half who is in charge the financials.

On the other hand, a Richards+Mason Army is a different animal altogether. Certainly more challenging: while we can use the frame of the Centaure like in the Richards 1 or 2, the Thuer or the LC conversion, we need to have a new cylinder lathed (no big deal after the experience with the R1) but in addition also a new barrel will be required because its contour is completely different from the original C&B barrel or the R1 and 2 configuration. The same applies to the ejector assembly. However, if a financially feasible solution can found here that will be an important leap forward…and paves the way for an Open Top using a Centaure frame…at some time in the future…thanks to the strong Belgian steel.

Both Karl Nedbal and I like challenges now and than. Therefore, we agreed on the next Centaure conversion project on August 22, 2008, the day the Thuer came home. The next Nedbal Centaure conversion will be a Richards+Mason Army. Knowing Karl a bit better now I am aware that he does not like the esthetics of the RM in comparison to Thuers and Richards: the barrel lug is too clumsy, and the gap between conversion ring and cylinder is too unsophisticated.

Project Outline – Centaure Richards+Mason Army Conversion

Base pistol: regular NMA 1^st variation, 3^rd sub-variation, S/N 6176

Barrel: 8”, made from semi-finished Uberti barrel, “S” shaped lug contour

Barrel marking: “1960 NEW MODEL ARMY” CENTENNIAL TRADE MARK

Caliber: .44 Colt indide lubed (.429 rifling caliber)

Ejector housing: Mason

Wedge: Centaure

Conversion ring: gated, Richards II type

Conversion cylinder: straight and bored through, newly lathed; with Centaure proprietary naval scene roll-engraved copied from C418

Hammer: converted C&B type from Centaure

Gate spring: external

Backstrap: Centaure (steel, without cut for stock)

Trigger-guard: Centaure (brass)

Finish: electroless nickel plating

The previous owner seemed to have taken S/N 6176 through her paces only once when he purchased her 1966. It appears that he thoroughly cleaned barrel, chambers and the outside of the gun after the shooting session and stowed her away. When I got her I disassembled her for a total body check. That’s my standard procedure. And yes, you guessed it. A thick layer of oily black crud mixed with some nice spots soldiers’ gold (rust) in lock, piston holes, chambers, inside of the grip, you name it. But no - and as expected, no harm done: most of the grunge I could wipe away, some needed penetrating oil but after my cleaning session she was technically and optically as good as new; see below.

Thanks, Belgian steel makers hard steel and FAUL technicians for your fine heat treatment and polishing jobs. You made my day. So please, stay tuned and watch what is happening!

WDN/August 28, 2008

© 2007 Wolf D. Niederastroth

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